Everyone is a Believer until they are a Witch.

If you are unfamiliar with the “No True Scotsman” fallacy, it basically is a way to ignore the facts. Used in context here, it goes something like this: Religious people tell atheists that if someone just “allows” themselves to believe in god, then god will come to them and they will believe. Okay, sounds good on paper, I guess. But what about people that used to be religious and believed in god that are now atheists? Since they once believed and supposedly could have god “coming to them”, would they not know what that was like now? Would they not see the difference? Enter the excuse- er- fallacy. No, the religious person will reply, in their estimation that person never TRULY believed.

Do you see what the religious person did there? The mere existence of former god-fearing atheists is contrary to their stated beliefs, so they just assume that all of those atheists just never actually believed it themselves. It is exceptionally patronizing and wildly speculative. What it is NOT is honest. Millions of people once believed in god, but no longer do, and those shared experiences are just hand-waved away because it is too much to contend with honestly.

I don’t hand-wave away the experiences of religious people. Indeed, I fully embrace and discuss those experiences. I regularly walk-the-proverbial-dog of the formations of beliefs and religious experiences. And I use those experiences to demonstrate the unreliability of religions. This comes out all the time in my posts and in the comments. I let people give me their full “conversion story” or “born again moment” or their single-most important reason they believe, and then we talk through it. And in every single case, they end up backing down at least in part from their original confidence in their assertions. To a person, they overstated the experience, jumped to an indefensible conclusion, and overconfidently proclaim it to be true. This confidence fades after some precursory questioning. And they don’t hang around after that, or they keep changing the subject to not have to answer the question. (This is for you, Randy.)

You see, religious people have no desire to know what it is like to lose your religion. The few that are willing to be intellectually honest enough usually end up being one of us anyway. But for the rest, they FEAR having to contend with this concept. And you know what they say about leading a horse to water, right? You can lead a religious person to a basic, logical conclusion, but you can’t make them think.

Which is why it is hilarious to watch the No true Scotsman fallacy fall on someone’s head in real time. And by this, I mean someone that thinks, and still thinks, that they believe in god- nay, the RIGHT god, and consider themselves to be bastions of virtuous worship, only to be accused of being heretics, atheists, unbelievers, demons, satanists, or witches.

Down in Tennessee, there are some true believin’ bible belt Jesus cult members that have come under fire because their pastor Greg Locke has accused them of witchcraft. Now, a thinking person would realize that since they aren’t a witch, and witches aren’t even real, that their pastor is a fucking idiot and has been lying to them the whole time about shit he doesn’t understand. But of course these are not thinking people, they are just Jesus freaks that got caught up in politics with a man that claims to speak directly to god.

Naturally, being not-witches, Gina and Brian Warren spoke up and responded to the allegations. And at the end of the day, it turns out the entire thing was just a big-dick competition about church staffing positions. But the important thing to know is they were accused not of being wrong about their opinion, but of being mother fucking witches! Witches I say! You know, the made-up scary ladies from story books? This dude said they were actually witches, and kicked them out of the church. They are kicked to the curb from pastor Greg “the god-damned idiot” Locke’s church. They received threats. They are pariahs.

Now, I feel bad that these people were threatened and their physical safety was in dispute. But knowing that as of this writing they are safe, I find it incredibly humorous and fulfilling watching two nut-jobs accusing each other of working for Satan because they have a difference of opinion on what their imaginary friend would want. To this day, this woman still thinks she can babble utter nonsense and Jesus makes her words a foreign language. Yet according to the other nut-job, she is not a “true” believer. Oh, the irony pierces my funny bone!

Most religious people shield themselves from being called out for their stupidity. And I don’t mean just Christians. I mean all of them. The entire point of churches (or mosques or temples) and blasphemy laws is to ensure that nobody points and you and laughs when you affirm a belief in something stupid. And if someone does, well, they are just that group of not-scotsmen over there. Kill them.

For proclaiming themselves to be not judgemental, it’s hard to find anyone more judgemental than religious people. In the US, if you want to find someone that is constantly judging people for not being good enough, or for being bad, or being the wrong type of person, just go to church. Yeah, they smile and act happy when they are in their bubble, but they are full of judging the shit out of their fellow humans. And their judgement is usually based on telling the other person what they believe. You never believed. Or you just want to sin. Or you are rebelling against god. You believe this and that. You’re not believing the right way.

Nothing is more ridiculous than telling people what they believe. I make a point to not assume what people believe, and CONSTANTLY ask questions. And usually, the religious person’s answers paint themselves in a corner and my work is done. But to straight up tell someone what they believe? It is hard to conceive of anything more arrogant.

Nothing is more poetic justice than someone abruptly finding themselves outside the wall of judgement and hate they helped create.

The Spartan Atheist

88 thoughts on “Everyone is a Believer until they are a Witch.

  1. We have a real atheist “nut job” bombing Ukraine back to the Stone Age, and The Spartan feels the need to verbally abuse some stupid people for abusing their religion.

    The Spartan’s logical conclusion is that because a couple of stupid people in West Bum F**k Tennessee practice their religion stupidly, all religions, especially Christianity, must be stupid.

    The Spartan needs to clean up his own tortured logic before blaming errant Scotsmen on a couple of inbred bumpkins.

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    1. Silence, we already established you are a liar. Putin may ne a lot of things, but he’s no atheist. Putin is one of those Eastern Catholic nut jobs that believes muttering over crackers makes it human flesh.
      But yes, absolutely. I verbally abuse those that misuse their religion. Glad you finally figured that out. Speaking of which, are you going to answer my questions from the previous post? Are you actually going to engage in dialoge? Or are you here to spew lies and nonsense again?

      Liked by 5 people

      1. Spartan, I am not a liar. But you are an idiot. Your posts prove both.

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      2. Prove you aren’t a liar, Silence. Answer my questions:

        1) You say Ananis was killed for being a horrible person. The Bible says it was because Ananias witheld money from Peter’s cult. Are you wrong or is the bible wrong?

        2) Is the Covid vaccine an important tool that will help the pandemic, therefore Trump should be praised for spending money to get it done, or is it nothing and js pointless and Trump is a damned fool for taking credit for nothing?

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      3. Spartan, the only way you can win an argument is by declaring your opposition a liar. You, are the lair and you know it, because atheism is a lie.

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      4. Oh, Silence. You JUST proved I’m right in calling you a liar. You JUST can’t seem to resolve your own cognitive dissonance.

        Try again. I won’t let you lie about this. Answer the question for once. I have no other conversation with you than these two questions.

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      5. The idiot calls me a liar because his post has been exposed as idiocy. It is as simple as that.

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      6. Silence, prove to everyone I’m a liar. Answer my two questions. I double dog dare you to just answer my simple questions to prove you aren’t just a name-calling liar. I humbly await your two, amazing answers.

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    2. chris schilling March 31, 2022 — 4:59 pm

      SoM thinks Putin is an atheist nut-job. The alt-right, on the other hand, have hailed Putin as a Christian nationalist, and a defender of Christendom against decadent Western neo-liberalism, etc. It wouldn’t surprise me that the alt-right are alt-wrong, but then, they’d probably say the same about SoM, which is pretty much what you’d expect when one bunch of Christian fanatics argues with another.

      Liked by 3 people

      1. You can’t spell Christian without C-O-G-N-I-T-I-V-E D-I-S-S-O-N-A-N-C-E.

        Liked by 1 person

  2. Belief is an emotion, like love. If you fall out of love does that mean you never loved them—you weren’t a true lover? This usually happens after taking some time to get to know them better. Same as belief. I was a true believing Christian until I so keenly noticed that it actually added up to nothing and the promises were pipe dreams.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. Ooh! That is a damned fine analogy!

      Liked by 1 person

      1. But of course, you know the rebuttal to this. I only thought I was doing it sincerely but was deceived by some sacramental misspelling.

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      2. Not sure what you are referring to, but have you seen the recent hub-bub about a Catholic Priest that said “we” instead of “I” when baptizing people, which supposedly nullifies their…. baptism? Magic apparently has lawyers?

        Liked by 2 people

      3. You caught that…. I was also referring to my misinterpretation of mainline scripture. Everyone else is doing it wrong

        Liked by 1 person

  3. To tell the truth I think these thousands of different wealthy Christian cults and fancy churches arguing who is right and wrong are according to their Bible a complete insult to their God. It is dammed lucky for them he is only a figment of their emotional imagination because I am sure if he was real he would have cast the whole lot of them into hell along with the Pope in his fancy robes and hat.

    Liked by 2 people

  4. “To a person, they overstated the experience, jumped to an indefensible conclusion, and overconfidently proclaim it to be true. This confidence fades after some precursory questioning. And they don’t hang around after that, or they keep changing the subject to not have to answer the question. (This is for you, Randy.)”

    I have known many who have been active in church, quite religious, and have turned away, as you said.
    But the ones I have known through my 44 years of changed life, who have also claimed “a new creation”, I have yet to see one turn away from the One who changed them.
    You are right that I don’t know what someone believes, but, if someone claims there is no God, then it seems fairly obvious that they don’t believe God.
    Yes?

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    1. Yes! Yes, Randy! I honestly, truly, thoughtfully, and earnestly do not believe in any god. It’s not that I believe but am mad about it, believe but don’t want to follow rules, or am somehow “hardening my heart” in order to not believe. I used to believe, truly, and now I don’t anymore.

      And nothing changed when I quit believing. I’m not missing any form of communication or care or comfort or feel like I’m missing a limb having been “cut off from god”, because there was nothing there before, I only thought there was.

      See? We can find common ground.

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      1. So, you were always the same. You never were a “new creation”. Yes, we agree.

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      2. I have no idea what that means. I suspect you don’t either.

        Liked by 2 people

      3. So we don’t agree after all.

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  5. I’m just sorry that you never experienced the love of God.
    I really mean that.

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    1. And there it is! Randy, you are being a condescending cunt again, just like I said you would be.

      Randy, you condecending cunt, first, go fuck yourself for thinking you know what I believed.

      Second, I DID feel the love of Jesus. I believed in Jesus’ love as much as I believed in the love I got from my parents. That is my whole point. You have once again proven exactly what I say. I’m batting 1000 with you! Your beliefs are based on unsubstantiated myths, and reinforced by others that believe them. That is it.

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      1. SA, speaking from experience, the tactic that Randy uses is very common. Rather than point out why they disagree (with substantial facts), they take the easy route and say something like, “How sad, too bad that you feel/think the way you do. It’s obvious you never really experienced god’s love.”

        And they do this because on their side of the aisle, they have nothing EXCEPT “feelings” and “experience.”

        Liked by 2 people

      2. Yep, exactly. But on my blog, I don’t have to swallow my shock at being talked to like a small child.

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      3. You think (I suppose) that the love of Jesus you believed in was a lie, so (I guess) you stopped believing. Maybe you left the belief before you experienced the New Creation.

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      4. No, I left because it isn’t real. Randy, the no-shit, absolute ground truth of the matter is your god is fake. Your god does not exist. This has nothing to do with believing hard enough or “new creation” or being “born again”.

        Your god is fake, so people quit believing. That is what is actually happening.

        And since you believe, you are forced to play mental gymnastics attempting to square this obvious fact with your belief, and in doing so you say dumb shit and you become a condecending asshole.

        We truly believed, we found out it is fake, we quit believing. The end.

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      5. I truly believed, he changed me in ways beyond understanding, he showed me his love, he put his love in me, I can no more stop believing in Him than I can stop believing in you.
        The beginning.

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      6. Randy, I think that is the first honest thing you have said. You can’t just stop believing.

        You have to want to know what is real and take a good hard look at the evidence. For too long, your belief has been supported by illogical nonsense instead of real evidence. If you examine that honestly, you will find what you believe is also nonsense.

        That is what I did, Nan did, and thousands of other true believers. In my case, it was not a question of if the entire thing was wrong, I merely wanted to settle a single point of theological disagreement. But once I decided to find out what was the no-kidding truth, the entire thing fell apart.

        Liked by 1 person

      7. You give me way to much credit for my ability to believe. When I read the Bible with my “old mind” I can see it like you do.
        But the reality is quite different than I could perceive in the old way of thinking.
        But, I do understand your argument.

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    2. chris schilling April 2, 2022 — 8:20 pm

      Like they say, Randy: “If you can fake sincerity, you’ve got it made.”

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I am not faking it, Chris. You may think I am wrong, but I believe what I am saying.

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      2. One definition of “belief” is this … and I think it fits … A vague idea in which some confidence is placed,

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  6. Oh … so now you’re into quoting Bible scripture! As if that will make a difference?? Hint: Non-believers don’t believe the bible anymore than they believe in god(s).

    Liked by 2 people

    1. I know, Nan, you told me that before. But some things are true whether one believes them or not.
      Not believing the Bible doesn’t make it false any more than believing it makes it true.
      It is either true or false, regardless of what we believe.
      Now, I believe it is true,because it has proven itself to be true over and over and over. . . .
      You can accept it or not.
      But somewhere you have to find a standard of truth.
      I haven’t found a higher standard.

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      1. Randy, name one thing that the bible has proven itself to be true.

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      2. So, if I tell you all the ways,you’re not going to tell me that there is no proof?
        I know the truth is there because he it has revealed the nature of my heart, before “new creation” and after.
        It has revealed the changes after with incredible accuracy.
        It has revealed the nature of God to me, and I can see it because my “eyes can now see” the kingdom of God, just as the Bible says.
        I won’t be able to give you evidence that you will accept.
        That doesn’t mean that the evidence is untrue.

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      3. All the ways? No, I just want one. Give me your best “proof” that we can rely on the bible.

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      4. From the line of Judah the messiah would come, born in Bethlehem, of a virgin, he would cause the lame to walk, the blind to see, the deaf to hear, the dead to rise.

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      5. Okay, Randy, so there is a line in the bible about stuff. Okay. So then what?

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      6. Well, it’s not life to you because you don’t have the life to see it.
        But, it is truth.
        If you could read the words, and see the truth, then we would have something to talk about.

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      7. No, Randy, I’m just asking a question. Judah says some stuff. Explain why that is your best proof of the reliability of the bible.

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      8. Have you already got your arguments picked out, depending on the route I take?

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      9. No, I just want you to explain why you think the bible is reliable, and to answer my legitimate questions regarding the subject.

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      10. Oh, yeah, also 2 Corinthians 4:4

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  7. chris schilling April 3, 2022 — 6:52 pm

    Randy, sincerity in itself is no guarantee of truth. I have no doubt you believe what you say. The problem is: why should anyone else believe it? It’s like Nan said: you have nothing but “feelings” based on your religious experiences. But these are by nature private and essentially incommunicable. Giving voice to them already dilutes the intensity of whatever you may have felt. And there are myriad possibilities — entirely natural ones — to better account for these “spiritual” experiences. I’d plump for hallucinations myself, which are strikingly common and easily induced under the sort of heightened conditions of religious fervour or practice.

    Claims of personal revelation must always be suspect, because there is no way to test them empirically. As Thomas Paine said: as soon as you tell me of your claim of revelation, it becomes merely hearsay, and I’m under no compulsion to give especial credence to it.

    Liked by 2 people

  8. Do you believe that Jesus existed?

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    1. Yeshua, the Jew, may have existed. But “Jesus” as the individual is known today? Nope.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. I don’t know if a man named Jesus ever existed, but the evidence seems to show not at all. But if a man existed or not, I definitely do not believe he was a god.

      Liked by 2 people

    3. Randy, I deleted your last comment because you did not answer my question. You just preached. Get back to your best proof that we can rely on the bible, which was a story about someone coming yada yada. What about it?

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    4. Randy, I deleted the next comment because you didn’t even try to answer the question. I’m not a moron with the attention span of a gnat, like your friends. I have asked a question and you mentioned a passage in a book. So explain yourself.

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      1. To what end? So you can show me the countless ways I am wrong?
        I know you can’t be convinced.
        My time is more valuable to me.
        Jesus even told his disciples to preach,but if they don’t receive your words, shake the dust off your feet as you leave.
        I have argued with you many times. You say I don’t answer your questions.
        Look back and see how many of my questions went unanswered.
        This is fun, but it is not fruitful.

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      2. To what end? To convince me! You came on my blog to tell me your god was real, and when I give you the floor to explain why he is real and the bible is his book, you fold!

        And I’m right, you never answer my questions. And right now, the question is why some OT bible story is convincing enough to believe it.

        And yeah, I answer your questions all the time. I answered two of your questions just a few comments up!

        So answer the god damned question, already.

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      3. It’s really hard to resist such a heartfelt appeal.
        But, I must decline.
        I am not chosen for vain arguments.
        And I am wasting your efforts as well.

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      4. Randy, how are you so sure the bible is a reliable source and your god is real when you are so damned wishy-washy? You come on my page spouting the glory to your god and that you have absolute faith, yet all I ask is for you to give me one good reason to believe, and you utterly fold!

        C’mon. Seriously. You seemed pretty sure. I’m open to a good argument. Hit me with your best.

        Liked by 1 person

      5. MANY believers really don’t know WHY they believe because it’s more about emotion and feeeelings than it is a considered decision.

        Liked by 1 person

      6. Exactly, Nan. I’m pretty sure Randy believes because it makes him feel good, and then looks for stuff to back it up.

        He mentioned the Judah and Bethlehem and all that passage in the bible. I’m assuming he was referring to that as a prophetic thing that came true, but since he ran away before he even finished answering the question I may never know.

        It’s pretty bad when your #1, top of the list, most established, most reliable, most rock-solid thing you can tell someone else about why you believe something is mention some random book passage and then not even be able to articulate why it’s so good.

        Liked by 1 person

      7. It is not my goal to convince you the Bible is anything.
        I believe that the part of us that is us, the essence, doesn’t die.
        When I discovered that I could have a new life that included yielding my life to God, I didn’t have any understanding of the truth of the Bible, or even what it was all about.
        But, I can promise you, (and here, I would insert your name if I knew what it was) my life was changed in a moment, the way I believed about God( not so much) changed to believing God.
        From that point, my relationship with the Bible exploded. I didn’t try to prove it or disprove it, I just let it speak to me, teach me to live a way that would honor and please God.
        It wasn’t instant or even quick.
        But through the years I have been absolutely certain of the life he gave me, and of his life growing inside of me.
        If you want my take on certain scriptures,just ask.
        I am not a theologian, but I do love that book.
        To me,it reads fresh every day.
        I don’t hate you. Heck, I don’t even know your name.
        I am instructed to be a witness.
        All I can tell you is what comes from Him through me.
        You game?

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      8. Game? Yes, Randy. Im game. I keep telling you to explain this, and you keep avoiding answering my questions.

        If you are going to buy something, asking the salesperson questions doesn’t mean you aren’t buying, it means you want to check up on the product.

        And yes, we ALL know that YOUR life changed once you believed in this thing. Real or fake, believing in something this big has to change you. It’s the real or fake thing you keep not being helpful about.

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      9. I am not selling something. I’m offering something that is free.
        So ask a question.
        I will consider it and give you an answer.
        (I don’t have all the answers.)

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      10. However you want to call it, you are trying to convince me.

        I already asked a question. What is your biggest reason for believing?

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      11. Honestly, the reason I began is because I asked God a question and He provided me with an answer.
        Everything else followed. As I learned I grew, and belief became easier and easier.
        I really didn’t believe anything before that time. Though I might have told you I did.

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      12. What question, and how did he answer?

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      13. John 3: 1-15
        I asked, ” What does it mean to be born again?”
        I should have known this, having grown up in church, but apparently I didn’t pay much attention.

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      14. Who did you ask, or how, or by what method?

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      15. Have you not read my account of this? I thought you had.

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      16. I believe I did but it made no sense, so I’m asking now.

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      17. LOL! Oh, yeah! I remember now, Randy! Let me re-cap for my viewers:

        As a teenager, Randy kinda quit going to church regularly, but he was always a Christian. He got hired and fired from a few jobs. He met his wife and in their early 20s he settled into a job and going to church, and eventually he was teaching Sunday school. But he was doing something that could get him fired from his job. And at one point, he thought he would get caught and he started getting all emotional and prayed to god that if he helped him, he would stop being an idiot. At the time, they were reading the “born again” bit in the bible, which is probably the most-used phrase in all of Christendom. And within the next day or so he was on a delivery at a place and found a pile of trash with a pamphlet that said “born again”, and nearby another pile of trash with the same “born again” pamphlet. He rescused them from the trash, read them thoroughly, and decided that this was a sign from god. And since he decided god gave him a sign, he feels better now and quit being an idiot at work.

        So basically, someone was passing out pamplets from their church with one of the most-used phrases in the english language, and everyone was just throwing them away. Randy happened upon these pamphlets right at the same time as, while being a true-believing Christian- had never deeply considered that phrase. And because of that mild coincidence, Randy is convinced that his god is real.

        Oh, and I forgot, since he decided it is real, he is super happy about it! That’s the clincher!

        Randy, that was a different answer than your other one earlier up. But that is fine.

        I remember this one now, because I asked you if mild coincidences are how your god shows his power, or something like that. Do you see how absolutely not impressive this is? I mean, when you have a moment of clarity, sure, it is powerful to YOU, but as something that we would recognize as reality, it just doesn’t cut it. And if I remember correctly, the last time you admitted it was a pretty lame story, although probably not with those words….

        Liked by 1 person

      18. Perfect. Not exactly what I said, but. . . .

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      19. No. I didn’t say that it was a lame story.
        The real point of the story is that that day, that moment, my life completely changed.
        I had prayed out loud 5 minutes before to the God I sorta believed in, ” Why am I so depressed? And what does it mean to be born again?”
        Alone in my truck.
        It doesn’t bother me that you think it is a lame coincidence.
        My attention was grabbed, my life was changed.
        44 years has gone by.
        My love for my God has grown and grown.

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      20. Yes, Randy. I acknowledged that personal experiences can be profound. I’ve acknowledged multiple times in many threads that I am fully prepared to grant you the fact that you truly believe what you believe. But the fact that you had a thought, an epiphany even, doesn’t mean anything at all about your belief is real. It just means it profoundly affected you. But I didn’t ask you if you’ve had a profound for you experience, I wanted you to convince me that your religion had any sort of validity whatsoever. You had an epiphany, but is your epiphany pissing in the wind or something real? That’s the thing I’m asking. Can you give me any sort of reason to believe that you had anything more than a moment of self-reflective clarity?

        Liked by 1 person

      21. It’s rather interesting how people suddenly “see” things they were reflecting on only moments before. SURELY must be GOD!!!

        Liked by 1 person

      22. I started “seeing” my exact model of car after I bought one. Praise Chevrolet!

        Liked by 1 person

      23. Wait a second.
        If God is indeed real,but a spirit that you cannot see, then, it’s not weird to think that He would show some sort of physical evidence, right?
        That’s kind of what you have been asking.
        So when I say I read a scripture, was puzzled, prayed for an explanation, almost immediately received it, and had my life make a major change in direction for the long term of my life, you don’t see anything to that?
        Another scripture that comes to mind I found long after that eventful (in my mind) day was this one:

        “I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh. Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God.”
        ‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭11:19-20‬ ‭NIV‬‬
        https://bible.com/bible/111/ezk.11.19-20.NIV

        That happened to me.
        You’re right, I didn’t get a literal heart of stone pulled from my chest and replaced with a soft, beating heart of flesh.
        But, my heart was hard in that, though I believed in the existence of God, I didn’t care that much ( or at all) about him or any plans he might have for me.
        But, suddenly I did.
        Probably the only real difference between me then and you now is that I had this nebulous untested blind belief in the existence of the Christian God.
        But I lived as if I didn’t.

        So, after the fact, another scripture that showed me evidence that God was real was this one in Ezekiel.

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      24. Randy, people have epiphanies every day. The source of those epiphanies comes from all manner of religious texts, philosophy, scientific study, reading a compelling novel, or even talking to a friend. That you already believed, but suddenly sort of “got” something about the religion is not, in any way at all, indicative of the truthfulness of it.

        Your story is no more compelling than a Hindu man suddenly realizing the deep seated meaning of Samsara. I mean, glad he figured it out and it changed his life and all, but that doesn’t mean I believe in the elephant-headed man god Ginesh.

        If I tell you a story about a man that was contemplating Samsara, and while walking around Dehli found a pamphlet for Hinduism talking about Samsara, would you- Randy Epps- throw away your religion and become Hindi?

        Honestly. Would you become Hindi?

        Liked by 1 person

      25. No. I wouldn’t.
        And I told you, all I can do is be a witness.
        I cannot change your heart.
        I didn’t care about anything in tge Bible until my heart was changed.
        (Notice, I didn’t say until I changed my heart, but that my heart was changed.)
        There is a scripture that says, “Today, if you hear His voice, don’t harden your heart.”
        If you haven’t heard his voice, then I don’t blame you at all.

        But, that was an excellent question.

        Liked by 1 person

      26. Randy! You finally answered a question! Thank you, sincerely.

        The problem is not that I haven’t heard his voice, it is that I also think you have not. You BELIEVE you have, but I suspect it was just you having an inner monologue and coming to a conclusion that you found exceptionally brilliant to yourself.

        This is why I’m not a Christian, or a Hindu either for that matter. You and the Hindu guy make the same claims. Neither of you has anything substantial to demonstrate the truth of the claim.

        At the end of the day, it really comes down to you want to feel good even if you are not right, and I want to be right no matter if that means I feel good.

        Liked by 1 person

      27. Fair enough.
        Unless I am right.
        If you are right,I will never know it, because I will die and enter the great nothingness.

        Like

      28. No, Randy! If you die and the Hindus are right, you will come back as a slave! Or worse! Don’t you care at all about your immortal soul? Don’t you care one iota about a life of torment and horror awaiting you if you don’t get right with samsara? Karma will not be good to you, my friend.

        Like

      29. That is why we search for the truth.
        I have to trust someone wiser than you. And wiser than I.

        Like

      30. No, Randy, I JUST GAVE YOU THE TRUTH. A man in Dehli was confused about his life and contemplating samsara when he found a pamphlet talking about samsara. He then realized he needed to quit calling old ladies in the US and scamming them and devote his life to Vishnu. Why are you ignoring the truth?

        Like

  9. chris schilling April 5, 2022 — 8:39 pm

    Anecdotally speaking, I’ve noticed a recurring pattern with many conversion stories.

    Pressed for specific details, born-agains can become remarkably coy when it comes to explaining what actually converted them. It’s almost as if it’s too embarrassing to relate, or they sense just how lame such accounts sound to an outside, sceptical party. But they make up for this deficit with a surfeit of Bible quotes, as if that was supposed to somehow clinch the argument.

    Liked by 1 person

  10. “Religious people tell atheists that if someone just “allows” themselves to believe in god, then god will come to them and they will believe.”

    I’m just going to point out, although some theists may argue along these lines, if I am understanding this correctly, I would not. I do not expect an atheist to be convinced about God’s existence without actual empirical evidence to back it up.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Hi, Chivalric! Good to hear from you again. Basically nothing I say is an absolute. There are Catholics that believe abortion is okay, gay marriage should be allowed, Jesus was a child of a Roman soldier raping Mary, the cracker isn’t actually Jesus, the Pope can be wrong, have varying views on every single story in the bible if it is metaphor or real, or if you actually have to tell a priest your sins. So no, I don’t expect that every single Catholic, or Christian, would expect the “allow” loophole in finding your god.

      I appreciate your intellectual honesty, I really do. The problem is, there is no actual empirical evidence that your god exists. And frankly that is why this cop-out is so popular among religious leaders and apologists and defenders of the faith. Since there is no evidence, they want others to just go ahead and join without it.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. That is fair. I would disagree with your statement that there is none, however. I personally have never heard an experienced apologist make such a claim. I’m sure there are some. However, I just wanted to point out that this argument does not represent all theists and I imagined not most experienced apologists. I would agree, nevertheless, there is an anti-intellectual strain within Christianity. However, I strongly disagree with that strain. I’m more of a Thomistic guy myself, I think, in regards to Christian philosophy.

        Like

      2. Oh, I’ve heard “experienced” apologists use it. But that is neither here nor there since we agree it is an invalid argument.

        Liked by 1 person

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