What the actual witnesses saw

It’s been a pretty common apologetics tactic to just assert that really, really, really impossible things reported in holy books actually happened, and we can trust that because there were SO MANY WITNESSES! Joseph Smith had his original three and later eight witnesses, Christianity has it’s 120 and 500 witnesses, and there were supposedly witnesses that saw Muhammed ride a winged horse to heaven.

Well, shit! Then why are we doing all of these mind-fuck exercises with William Lane Craig? Why don’t we just ask the witnesses! Just settle all of this once and for all! I mean, if I knew there were a whole bunch of witnesses to something, that is where I would START! I would interview them and capture their initial impressions right away! That way, they couldn’t be tainted or pressured into saying something else. And that’s exactly what happened, right guys? Guys? Hello?

To be fair, the Mormons at least had their witnesses sign something. We actually know their names. And…. let’s just say that if I were a defense attorney, it would be pretty easy to discredit them from the stand. They had everything to gain by lying, they were his personal friends, their “testimony” was pressured and collaborated, they were prone to believing they saw magic anywhere and everywhere, and their activities later in life contradicts the idea that they believed fully in the new religion. One witness apparently said that he hadn’t seen the plates with his physical eye but with his “spiritual eye.” But at least they have witnesses.

And I’m going to assume that not every religious person that reads my blog is a Mormon. And yet, here they have actual, named witnesses and their actual signature on a statement saying they witnessed the plates! Why are you not all Mormons!? Because their witnesses suck, that’s why. Anything and everything we know about reliable witness testimony is broken for all of these “witnesses.” No court would allow anything they said to stand. So no, we aren’t Mormons because it is a clear attempt to invent legitimacy. But at least they have witnesses!

Most other religions have no witnesses, and certainly not the Abrahamic religions. If you aren’t able to talk directly to the witnesses, and get their direct testimonies, and even to question them on precisely what they saw, heard, and did, then you don’t have a witness. You have a story of a witness. Nothing else. Nothing more. A story told to legitimize another story told. You have nothing.

Until today.

You see, dear reader, in my travels far and wide, digging in some of the holiest of holy places, I was able to discover long-hidden testimonies from the actual witnesses to the events of Jesus! You can ask me for my research in the comments, but first, I present to the world, the ACTUAL WITNESSES of JESUS!:

“Jesus had a bad temper and was a horrible magician. One time he knocked over a bunch of tables in a market, and when bread and fish went flying he claimed that he miracled most of them into existence.”

Simon

“Jesus? That fraud? He wandered around yelling about how Romans are horrible and they executed him. No, the real Messiah is George of Jaffa!”

Barnabus

“I threw his body in a ditch with other bodies.”

Roman guard Gaius

“Jesus was a dumbass. He begged for money, then bought wine and got drunk, then told people he magically turned water into wine and we should give him more money. Some of those damned fools believed him!”

Mary

Prove me wrong. Oh yeah, you can’t. You don’t know who the witnesses are either.

The Spartan Atheist

18 thoughts on “What the actual witnesses saw

  1. I could believe Mary and the guards account if they said that lol.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. Well, see, you have to overlook all that and simply consider all the folk today that have “accepted Christ” into their lives. They will “witness” to you every chance they get!

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Ah yes. The “spiritual” witnesses. I hope you aren’t suprised if I take their testimony with a grain of salt….

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Not in the least!

        Liked by 1 person

  3. Faith, heaven, hell, God, Jesus, holly spirit, miracles, prayers, angels and devils, divine scripture etc that are all either invisible mythical or copied theocracies but are told we have spiritual, unseen, unknown and lying witnesses, hell what is there not to believe?

    Liked by 3 people

  4. how do you know it is as mythology. Is there is any witness to testify it as false? It is because you are atheist you are simply saying false.

    People all over the world accepted for 3000 years that christ is true and he is the messenger of God.

    You people are minority who want to deny this fact. .

    Like

    1. Hi, Calcutta Bob. I finally let one of your posts through because you actually addressed the article. Keep this in mind. If you talk about the article, I respond.

      Why aren’t you Hindi? Christianity is only 2000 years old (not 3000), but Hinduism is over 4000 years old. So for over 4000 years, people accepted the truth of the Hindu gods. Why don’t you?

      Liked by 2 people

    2. @SamClaptrap:
      What are you doing worshipping Yahweh, a Hebrew deity? If most Jews — a religious and ethnic minority — don’t accept “christ [sic] is true and he is the messenger of God”, then why should any other minority, including atheists?

      If something reads as mythology, it’s a pretty safe bet it is mythology. Moreover, why would anyone need a witness to testify as false something that’s not by definition falsifiable, such as personal faith in supernatural claims?

      Liked by 1 person

  5. First of all you have many misconception regarding existence of Christ. I thank Chris for admitting the fact “”— a religious and ethnic minority — don’t accept “christ [sic] is true and he is the
    messenger of God””.
    Thanks chris for admitting it is a ethnic group and a minority ones which has nothing to do with proving the existence of Lord Jeasus Christ. Accepting and non acceptance of Christ is based upon individuals obedience and discipline to Lord Christ. . Simply not accepting Christ doesn’t prove non existence of Christ.
    poor Spartan, ignorance is your prime trait. There is nothing like Hinduism in Vedas. This hindu word is given by the britishers during british rule in india. Vedas and vedic culture has been existing for time immemorial for millions of years. Further Spartan missed one fact that Lord Jesus Christ came 2000 years ago but right from Adam and Eve up to St.Moses it is more than thousands of years. Majority of people all over the world even so called hindus accept Lord Jesus Christ as great saint of Christians.

    Like

    1. ALL “facts,” beliefs, suppositions, claims, etc. about Jesus and/or “God” have their genesis in the BIBLE — a book which has no historical nor scientific validity. It’s only redeeming quality is that it’s “believed” by desperate people who are unable to accept LIFE (and all that entails) for what it is and instead must depend on stories about some supernatural entity and his supposed “son.”

      Liked by 1 person

    2. “[N]on existence of Christ.”

      It’s purely academic (and largely irrelevant) whether Jesus/Yeshua existed or not. Whoever he was, he was not divine i.e. the son of God. If he did indeed exist, then he was merely flesh and blood like the rest of us, and his shit probably stunk, too, like anyone else’s. That’s just sheer bloody commonsense. Any claims for divinity should be taken about as literally as similar claims for the heroes of pagan myths — for example, the Perseus of Greek mythology, etc.

      Again, you don’t appear to be capable of distinguishing between mythology and reality. And you missed my point regarding Jewish perspectives. To clarify: if the Jews got it wrong when it comes to Jesus, why aren’t they wrong when it comes to their god Yahweh, a specifically local Hebrew deity you profess to believe in?

      Like most theists, you’re very selective and inconsistent about those beliefs or tenets you accept, and those you don’t.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. Chris what you say mythology happened 2000 to 3000 years ago. You people were not there during those times and how you people declare it as mythology. You people cannot falsify facts in the bible as you haven’t seen those mystical and divine incidence. We have admitted those divine witness for generations in a disciplic succession who has not been disputed. God is not ordinary person like you HE can perform supernatural magical feats which an ordinary man like us cannot do.

    In india there is jaipurs kings museum palace which is about 400-500 years old. Fformally those kings in order to test their strength and bravery will fight with lions and tigers hand to hand. Their sword and their weapons which they had used for fighting cannot be even lifted by todays people. If people and kings of 500 years were so strong then how strong would have been people and kings of 3000 years.

    At the present moment we are physically weak and we depend on machines. Therefore, we foolishly think that anything which cannot be done physically by us could not be done by previous generations also. We have been foolishly made to think that since the present generations cannot do one task without help of machines nobody could have done the task without machines.

    Bible speaks about divine personalities and supernatural God who is not ordinary person like us. Those incidence mentioned in the Bible was done by God or empowered saints of god and not done by ordinary human being like us. Therefore you cannot raise this point of mythology for rejecting Lord Christ and God on this ground alone.

    Like

    1. Samclaton, actually, we can falsify many of the claims of the bible and demonstrate they are myths. One of the ways we show that is one that you already assumed but are wrong about- we do NOT have a solid lineage of witnesses or chain of custody. Again, we have absolutely no witnesses to the supposed events of Jesus’ life. Zero. Nada. Not a single one.

      Another way we can demonstrate something is a myth is if the story is crafted to take advantage of an already known story to make it sound legitimate, but they mess it up a bit. Such an example is Jesus “coming out of Egypt.” Since the first gospel written (Mark) does not mention this, we know for a fact that the writer of Matthew must have gotten the idea from somewhere- either additional information, or a new mythical story. And we know it’s just a mythical story because it TRIES to pretend that Jesus was fulfilling a prophesy. However, there was no such prophesy. Moses already came out of Egypt. The bible was telling the story of Moses, not prophesizing a future Jesus. And because the author of Matthew fucked that up, we know it didn’t really happen, and that it is a myth.

      I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about with people being strong. Not only is it nothing to do with anything, it’s also stupid. Just because your Calcutta buddies eat dog shit all day and are weak pussies doesn’t mean the rest of us are weak. And just because someone that lived a long time ago was stronger than you are doesn’t mean a longer time ago everyone just must have been stronger still. It’s just mind blowing how stupid that paragraph is. You really are an idiot.

      Yeah, the bible says lots of stuff, and it’s almost entirely bullshit. But you are right. That we are able to demonstrate that some parts of the bible are completely invented myth does not in itself completely destroy every religious argument. It is only one line of evidence. But we also have other lines of evidence that also demonstrate the bible is bullshit. In fact, nearly every scientific discipline, history, logic, and sometimes just thinking a little bit demonstrates the bible is bullshit. BUT! Right now, I’m talking about this one particular thing that we know- that there are absolutely no witnesses to the life and times of Jesus Christ. So, anytime anyone says there are witnesses, they are either lying or stupid.

      Liked by 1 person

  7. More failed answers and lies from spartan, you don’t have any witness on your side to falsify Bible. I said divine witness and not ordinary people.

    Bible speaks about divine aspect of personalities and not ordinary people like us. So, you don’t have any solid basis to reject bible. Those incidences happened 3000 years and you don’t know anything about people and culture of 3000 years.

    God is omniscient and therefore unless you understand omniscient nature of God you reject bible on the basis of your subjective satisfaction and not really on the basis of witness. You people are such a minority group of atheist who naturally deny religion. So, the point is majority of Christians all over the world including scientists, doctors accept Bible and its divine incidences. You are not a scientist or a doctor to deny Bible.

    unless you have divine intelligence you cannot appreciate bible.

    Like

    1. Calcutta Betsy, you aren’t talking anymore, you are spouting religious horse shit.

      Are there, or are there not witnesses to the biblical events? The answer is no. Unless you have some answer where that is a yes, you are back in the yard with the pigs.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. Calcutta wimpy fuck, you did not answer my question. So you are done again. Thanks for playing “how to discuss a subject.” Maybe next time, you will learn how to do it!

      Like

    3. Oh, FYI to Calcutta Pig Fucker.

      We definitely do not have a line of succession from Peter to the current Pope. The catholic church made up popes a couple hundred years later, just like they made up witnesses. And Peter. They also made up Peter.

      Like

    4. “God is omniscient…”

      You’d have to be omniscient yourself to begin to even “know” such a thing. Are you? Fact is, you can profess this stuff, but you sure as hell can’t substantiate any of it. Not the god, not the Bible. None of it.

      Liked by 1 person

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